“My first word, uttered in silence and on my knees, has been a kiss on this soil (…) It’s like a kiss given in the hands of a mother, for the homeland is our earthly mother”
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Pope St. John Paul II
Speech on the Welcome Ceremony on his Apostolic Travel to Poland
June 16th, 1983
Pedro Gabriel, MD, is a Catholic layman and physician, born and residing in Portugal. He is a medical oncologist, currently employed in a Portuguese public hospital. A published writer of Catholic novels with a Tolkienite flavor, he is also a parish reader and a former catechist. He seeks to better understand the relationship of God and Man by putting the lens on the frailty of the human condition, be it physical and spiritual. He also wishes to provide a fresh perspective of current Church and World affairs from the point of view of a small western European country, highly secularized but also highly Catholic by tradition.
“The Pope has been very clear that he does not support women’s ordination.”(Pedro Gabriel.)
Here’s the video of Pope Francis after the voting on the Synod turn out in favor of woman ordination to diaconate. Out 181 Bishops,
137 voted Yes and 30 voted No.
Pope Francis said “let us be heard, I accept the challenge”, and said he will reopen a new commission to further study the role of women diaconate in the primitive Church. Here’s the videolink https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ISisa3fcA&list=LL9Pjpelb8_1bi86VekckxGQ&index=2&t=0s
See, Pedro G.. The Holy Spirit is the one leading the Synod and Pope Francis being docile to the voice of the Holy Spirit had to set-aside his personal conviction to give way to the Will of the Holy Spirit.
The Church is at war right now heading towards Final Confrontation, and the ending is written in Genesis3:15, the Face of the Woman must shine in the Church in the end times, and women ordination is the one fear by satan as it reminded him that he’s defeat is in the hands of a Woman.
St.JP2 consecrated his life in the service of the Woman, his inspiration was taken from St.Montfort total consecration which prophesy the Remnant Church, the Apostles of the Last Times are all consecrated to the Woman. TOTUS TUUS.
That interpretation of Genesis 3:15 could charitably be described as novel.
Good timing Pedro. This along with the soon to follow Assisi gathering of various world religions (that onepeterfive called a sacrilege) just shows that Pope John Paul was an earth worshipping, all religions are the same modernist. Then that heretical JPII went and actually kissed the Koran! What the hell! And look, that sacrilegious Assisi event ended on the same day as this horrible idol and earth worshipping Amazon Synod – October 27! That has to be more than just a coincidence! I and many other faithful Catholics are scandalized! Don’t these popes know who the heathens are? Oh God I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity – greedy, dishonest, adulterous. After all, I fast twice a week and pay tithes on my whole income!
Pete Vickery
You are well versed in the WPI articles on Amoris Laetetia with regards to objective & subjective culpability.
Looking on the subject of idolatry it is the same, why?
Did St.JP2 worship the Koran by merely kissing it? NO!
Is the event in Assisi a “sacrilegous event in the eyes of God? NO! , it is only sacrilegous in the rash judgmental mind of all the critics who do not understand the Will of the Holy Spirit inspired on the Vatican II Council on inter-religious dialogue (Nostra Aetate). Unity in diversity, and fraternal charity on cultural differences, and wearing the cloak and compassion for all the people who need more guidance coming from the Church to understand fully the right expression of faith, to come to knowledge of Jesus Christ fully.. As Pope Francis said, faith is journeying together, not proselytizing. The Shepherd must smell like the sheep.
What is the Wisdom why Pope Francis said it’s “Pachamama”, it is an “idol” in the eyes of the world?
Read Blessed Ab.Fulton Sheen prophecy on the works of the “counterfeit church or the mystical body of Antichrist” in the end times, this Antichrist group will destroy “idols and religions”.
Did the schismatic rigid Rad Trads praises the thieves who wanted to destroy the idol? YES! (Read John10:10)
Did the schismatic rigid Rad Trads for over 50 years condemning other religions like Jews, Muslims, Hindus ,Buddhist, etc,? YES!
So, now tell us if Pope Francis wisdom in not destroying the “Pachamama idol” is guided by the Holy Spirit.
All the Vatican II Popes esp. St.JP2 and Pope Benedict XVI and now Pope Francis embraces other religions as our brothers in Christ and People of God too particularly people who have a goodwill.
So, who are the group associated with Blessed Ab.Fulton Sheen saying the “counterfeit church or the mysticial body of the Antichrist” will destroy “idols and religions”?
St.Ambrose words and this site know who is the counterfeit and who is the True Catholic Church”.
“Ubi Petrus, Ibi Ecclesia, Ibi Deus”.
I agree with the point you are making, Jong. I was pretending to act like one of the Jack Chick types. I’m not sure if I made myself plain enough. Sometimes I don’t explain well enough.
At the synod, it was the ordination of women deacons, not the ordination of women to the priesthood. These are two separate issues, and the context of the sentence you are quoting from Pedro in your 1st line was about women’s ordination to the priesthood.
Marthe Lepine
Let us read the Catechism;
ARTICLE 6
THE SACRAMENT OF HOLY ORDERS
1536 Holy Orders is the sacrament through which the mission entrusted by Christ to his apostles continues to be exercised in the Church until the end of time: thus it is the sacrament of apostolic ministry. It includes three degrees: episcopate, presbyterate, and diaconate.
III. THE THREE DEGREES OF THE SACRAMENT OF HOLY ORDERS
1554 “The divinely instituted ecclesiastical ministry is exercised in different degrees by those who even from ancient times have been called bishops, priests, and deacons.”32 Catholic doctrine, expressed in the liturgy, the Magisterium, and the constant practice of the Church, recognizes that there are two degrees of ministerial participation in the priesthood of Christ: the episcopacy and the presbyterate . The diaconate is intended to help and serve them. For this reason the term sacerdos in current usage denotes bishops and priests but not deacons. Yet Catholic doctrine teaches that the degrees of priestly participation (episcopate and presbyterate) and the degree of service (diaconate) are all three conferred by a sacramental act called “ordination,” that is, by the sacrament of Holy Orders:
Let everyone revere the deacons as Jesus Christ, the bishop as the image of the Father, and the presbyters as the senate of God and the assembly of the apostles. For without them one cannot speak of the Church.33
Deacons were ordained too and confer on the gifts of the Holy Spirit they also bear the spiritual mark of Jesus Christ.
I agree, the Church has no authority to ordained woman into priesthood as St.JP2 defined , but deaconate is another subject. The deacon play the role of “helper” they are the New Eve to help the New Adam the priest & bishops representing Jesus Christ.
jong, you aren’t doing the message of Pope Francis any favors by acting like he’s pushing for women priests, that is a very creative interpretation. For one thing that is just false, Pope Francis is not pushing for women priests, he has clearly stated that the door is closed. For another thing, the diaconate is completely different thing than the priesthood. There is some evidence that in the early church there were female deacons who had a special female charism, different from the priesthood. Are you saying that our Lord would have let his beloved Mother die on the cross in His place? God forbid. She was not the one to shed her blood, she was assumed into heaven. The priesthood is a MALE charism. For me, when people say they want female priests, it reminds me of if men wanted to give birth. Or wanting to be nuns. Weird. Just, no. Male charisms. Female charisms. They exist. There are differences between the sexes, thank goodness.
M.
I was not in favor too on woman priesthood, I definitely embraced the teaching of St.JP2. But, ordaining woman as deacon had a small opening on Ordinatio Sacerdotalis and it is reserve for the end times,why? It is the role given to Eve by God, remember she is the “helper” of Adam. Priest are the New Adam and they need a “helper”, but without ordaining them the Church cannot overcome the forces of darkness.
In the Old Paradise, God breathe in to Adam the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but not to Eve. Adam is the one who confer to Eve the gifts of the Holy Spirit for her to become his “helper”. Adam is the first priest or Bishop, and after they fall, God taught Adam how to sacrifice the animals, that is the source of their clothing.
As the Church approach the end times going into the New Paradise, the Bishop the New Adam like Christ must confer the “anointing” to the woman too, as their “helper or deacon” but not as priest. But the problem is, the Church has no authority even in ordaining woman into deacon as expressed definitively by St.JP2 teaching.
Where do the Church will get the extra power to ordain woman as deacon? That’s is why there is a Second Pentecost, in the Upper Room the First Pentecost, all the apostles was “anointed” and received the gifts of the Holy Spirit. In the Second Pentecost, the Church will receive power to ordain woman as “deacon or helper”..
The question is, when will the Second Pentecost happen? see this link; The Cenacle A Preparation for the Second Pentecost https://mmp-usa.net/the-purpose-of-the-cenacle/ (Watchout for World Youth Day 2022 it will be celebrated in Portugal and it coincides with the 50th year anniversary of Cenacle Movement founded by Fr.Stefano Gobbi. The First Pentecost happen because of 50 Days Cenacle. Plus, we hope that Pope Francis will now be inspire to Consecrate Russia right at the very ground of Fatima Apparition).
I hope, I clear this up for you. God bless.
M.
Let’s settle the issue, and I hope WPI will allow this to be post, so that you know that we do not disagree.
Woman ordination to priesthood is not God’s Holy Decree, and St.JP2 is very clear on his definitive teachings.
But, let’s make it simple. God’s seeing the need of Adam, created a woman to become his “helper” or in Hebrew “ezer” in Greek “boethia”. (Mary Help of Christians is “ezer or boethia”).
Jesus is the New Adam and Mary the chosen Woman in the New Eve his “helper”, The Catholic Church called it “Co-Redemptrix.
Now, Jesus instituted the sacraments of Holy Orders. Jesus chooses the 12 Apostles, all men to be his alter Christus, do they need a “helper” too?
Yes, it is God’s Holy Decree. But, in the Upper Room and biblical narration there’s no passages that stated that the Apostles confer the gifts to woman as their “ordained helper”, there are woman “helper” but they were not seen as ordained.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying Pope Francis is pushing for women ordination into priesthood. What Im saying is, Pope Francis wisdom is so great, that he make it seen that “woman ordination to deacon” was not his desire, since he said that it is the Holy Spirit leading the Synod. Now, the 137 Bishops votes in favor of “ordaining woman into deacon” is not the desire of Pope Francis but it is the Will of the Holy Spirit.
Look how Pope Francis said his remarks, “LET US be heard, I accept the challenge”. Have you notice, the word “LET US”, we can see that Pope Francis is docile to the voice of the Holy Spirit as he set aside his personal conviction seeing the overwhelming vote of the Bishops who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to open the further study & dialogue on “woman ordination to deaconate”. I repeat only deacons not priest.
But, I tell you this will go into an “impasse” even if the Church Magisterium is incline to ordain woman into deaconate seeing it’s significance in the New Evangelization, why? The Church has “no power & authority” to ordain woman into deaconate by virtue of St.JP2 definitive teachings.
What is the solution to this impasse? A Second Pentecost is needed. Pope Francis will implore the help of the Holy Spirit to grant the Church the extra power & authority to ordain woman deacon, and this invocation will lead to Second Pentecost.
So, you see we are not in disagreement,
Ordination of woman to deacon? Yes!
Ordination of woman into priesthood? No!.
So, the Future Face of the New Church is, we will have a New Adam (Priest/alter Christus) empowered by the New Eve or the “helper or deacons”.
This is the victory written in the heart of God as He is the one who made the Holy Decree “a war between Woman vs. satan”, the chosen Woman will crush the head of the serpent. (Genesis3:15)
jong, I am confused because you said this on another thread: :and I can see Pope Francis softening the “disciplinary force” to give way for woman ordination into priesthood citing the “Time of Mercy” and “signs of times”. The Church having a “women priest” in the indigenous areas will change the Face of the Church but it will reveals the mystery that in the Upper Room the “other Mary’s” had played a role of priest after all Our Lady the chosen Woman is the First Woman Priest to celebrate the First Holy Mass in the “Mystery of Incarnation”.
You have made other comments that at least, Pedro, myself, Christopher Lake and Marthe Lepine took to mean, from what I can understand, that you are in favor of ordination of women priests, not just deacons, which is a completely separate issue.
I’m glad if you’ve changed your mind, or if I or others just misunderstood you, but I hope that you will be careful brother, not to get into the habit of thinking these profound thoughts are necessarily coming to you from the Holy Spirit. We are all capable of falling into error, and must always stick close to the teaching of the church, the magisterium- not rely on our own interpretations or on private revelations. It’s too easy to start thinking we have “special knowledge” and we all know where that road will take you. I exhort you to be careful! God bless you.
First. Kissing the soil of one’s homeland is a deeply human expression. How could it not please God with the gratitude it expresses? The earth is sacred in the most Christian sense since the blood of Christ consecrated it. So, enough about earth worshipping…if one can’t understand the kissing of soil they show themselves as having little gratitude.
Secondly, women diaconate is not only unlike the priesthood. ..it is entirely different from male diaconate.
There’s a huge important distinction between what a priest does and who a priest is.
Masculinity is not something external to the reception of orders…it reflects the the masculinity of Christ which places Christ and the priest in relation to the church as a bridegroom relates to a bride. That relation will never be conferred on women. But as to baptizing, witnessing marriages, and bringing the eucharist…access to the sacraments is a right. The church has a duty to see its met. My dad’s a deacon. …we worked in the missions of Canada my whole childhood. Not even a male deacon diminishes the faithful’s dependence on a priest.
Blown out of proportion. Not worried about indigenous women. ..it’s these pushy feminist parishioners that have been posing around the altar for years who will read a mandate into this document. But that can’t be helped. The missions need.
Well said Manuel!
Since we are off the topic anyway. ..I had an interesting thought today that I never really have seen fleshed out.
The deacon performs none of the sacraments that constitute “alter Cristi”. He has authority through his orders to bless in the name of the church. He has some faculty to teach and preach in a more authoritative way than the regular faithful however he is never “alter Cristi” in a capacity that the faithful themselves are not. He is “alter ecclesia” in a way the people are not. That is he speaks and acts “in persona episcopos” (bishop) but not if the bishop as “bridegroom” but of the bishop as nourisher, distributor, teacher, visitor…none of which need express a meaning that is sacramentally masculine.
The hidden implications here are this. The actions of a permanent deacon never place him in relation to the faithful as a bridegroom. He is helpmate. With the role holy orders clearly delineated and separated there may actually be a fittingness to women assuming some such official role…but specifically within their femininity and not simply as proxy to male counterparts.
The women who accompanied Christ did so no doubt in an official capacity. That is, they accepted expectations and responsibilities for the band of apostles. Roles specific to them.
I think that deacons and their wives have a very deeply recognized sharing of ministry. My parents did. My mom was as much a custodian of my dad’s diaconate as he was. They sang the office together every day. They were inseparable in their ministry.
Any thoughts from the non reactionaries who linger here.
Jong,
Private revelation is not a launching point for the catholic church.
There’s no evidence of women in the upper room. Deacons were men because they represented a man. And because they CAN reflect the bridegroom.
It is not the concerns of the end times that make us look to women in the Amazon. It is NEED. It is a culture that apparently does not have radical destructive feminism like the west.
Until there is a more universal understanding of the nuptial meaning of Christ relationship with the church I can’t see the West getting it right. Not while the devil is winning the gender war.
The Amazon will hopefully draw close to Christ.
Although I dislike association with “environmentalism” as a political ideology THAT is the main message of the Amazon synod to the West.
You can no longer be called a real catholic if you are not curbing your lifestyle in favor of sustainability. Apparently God is fed up with our short sighted ingratitude.