Jordan Daniel Wood is the first guest we’ve had on a second time…and we will have him on for a third!

I had a whole list of things that I wanted to talk with him about the first time we interviewed him, but after more than an hour discussing St. Maximus the Confessor and the vocation of the theologian, we didn’t get to the rest of my list.

In this interview I had two buckets of distinct-but-not-separate topics that I was hoping to talk about. The first was the connection between grace, theosis, and virtue.

I often hear virtues presented as if living the virtuous life is like learning how to play an instrument—if I do the work then I will make myself more free to play the piano. If I do the work, then I’ll become more like God. But more recently, in light of the doctrine of theosis, I’ve come to see virtue as the *result* of becoming like God. Not the work we need to do to get there.

When Jesus says, “Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.” I think he’s promising that with him, in him, and through him he will make me perfect. In other words, me living out the virtues is a result of God making me more and more like Jesus.

That was my first bucket. The second was about universalism. Specifically, it was about how he, a theologian, navigates the tension of his theological work about universalism while still being faithful to the Church. But we didn’t get there this week and decided it was best to devote a whole episode to that discussion.

This episode is available on Youtube and on your favorite podcast app!

Dominic and Paul had another great conversation with Jordan Daniel Wood. He’s the first guest we have had on a second time! We were originally going to talk about grace and universalism. But we had such a great conversation about grace, theosis, and the virtues that we ran out of time for universalism. So there will be a third interview with him soon! Also, we were chatting before we began the podcast, and that content was so good (and followed up so well from our episode last week about the development of doctrine) that we decided to include it in the episode.

Jordan Daniel Wood is a stay-at-home dad of four young daughters. He entered the Catholic Church about eight years ago. He holds a PhD in Historical Theology from Boston College, and, when not changing diapers and making school lunches, is currently working on two translation projects. He is also the author of the book, “The Whole Mystery of Christ: Creation as Incarnation in Maximus Confessor.”

Jordan’s email:

Our first interview with Jordan:

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Paul Faheylives in Michigan with his wife and four kids. For the past eight years, he has worked as a professional catechist. He has an undergraduate degree in Theology and is currently working toward a Masters Degree in Pastoral Counseling. He is a retreat leader, catechist formator, writer, and a co-founder of Where Peter Is. He is also the founder and co-host of the Pope Francis Generation podcast. His long-term goal is to provide pastoral counseling for Catholics who have been spiritually abused, counseling for Catholic ministers, and counseling education so that ministers are more equipped to help others in their ministry.

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